Comments on: D&D 4th Edition Firearms

By: William

William — Sat, 13 Aug 2011 19:21:36 +0000

I like your idea and I may use your stats for a campaign I may run in the future. I would make a couple of minor adjustments tho.’ I liked the way firearms were handled in the AD&D Historical Campaign Sourcebook *A Mighty Fortress*. Guns had the potential to do amazingly high amounts of damage, ignore A.C., and backfire. For example. A gun at point blank range always assumed an armor class of 10. At short range, A.C. bonuses were halved, and at long range A.C. was normal. Also, rolling max damage with a gun always prompted a second, third, fourth and so on. Finally, a roll of one backfired the gun, causing the wielder to take 1d4 points of burn damage. To make up for the amazing amounts of potential damage here, I believe the long reloading times are appropriate. So, gun reloading should be considered a standard action.

By: Sphar

Sphar — Sun, 15 May 2011 18:34:54 +0000

I suppose so they are overly complex,however…..I'd have to redo them a bit.

By: Stargazer

Stargazer — Mon, 21 Mar 2011 05:44:10 +0000

Looks interesting. But since I am not playing 4E anymore, I am perhaps not the right person to judge.

By: Sphar

Sphar — Sun, 20 Mar 2011 23:02:57 +0000

Well,I have made my firearms that I am developing rules for a bit stronger,but with tradeoffs to balance them.This(I think anyways) makes them a tad more realistsic while still not being incredibly overpowered.These still allow them to go 'BOOM!' but,being based on primitive guns,still have a long reload time and are innacurate.Granted,I tend to make things a bit more complex than need-but tell me what you think.And by the way,excuse my grammar(I'm pretty young).

Ironbow:Ironbows are primitive guns.They are highly inaccurate;they take a -3 penalty to attack rolls.This penalty stacks with the bonus gained from proficiency.

-New properties-
Unreliable:This weapon hams when your natural attack roll is equal to the unreliable value or lower.You can not fire a jammed weapon until you take a standard action to clear the chamber.

Aim:You can use a minor action to use the weapon two-handed to steady your aim.This gives you a +1 bonus to attack rolls.(This would represent aiming down the sights.)

Piercing:You attack both reflex and AC when you target a creature with an armor bonus(not Dex) equal to the piercing value or lower.If it hits either of the defenses,the attack hits.

Cleanshot:This weapon does not suffer the attack penalty for being an Ironbow.(This is balanced with less damage,and is used to show either an elongated barrel or the inside of the barrel being lined with so-called 'lines' that jut out to make it go in circles,thus making it more accurate.)

Clip:This is how many times you can fire the weapon before it runs out of ammo.More ammo should be used with certain powers as applicable(Twin Strike uses two shots)

-Elven Revolver-
Proficient:+2
Category:Superior One-Hand Ranged Weapon(Superior for the knowledge it takes to clean it and keep it in working condition)
Group:Ironbow
Damage:2d4
Range:6/12
Price:50gp
Weight:2 lbs.
Clip:6,8,10,or 12
Properties:Brutal 1,Unreliable 3,Off-Hand,AimLoad Standard,Piercing 2,Cleanshot.

Elven Revolvers are finely crafted in the forges of master elf smith.They are lighter,more accurate,and finer than other guns-but this comes with a price.The bullets they hold are not as thick as other bullets,and thus don't do as much damage.

_Dwarven Revolver_
Proficient:+1
Category:Superior One-Handed Ranged Weapon
Group:Ironbow
Damage:2d6
Range:5/10
Price:50gp
Weight:3 lbs.
Clip:6
Properties:Brutal 2,Unreliable 5,Off-Hand(?),Aim,Load Move,Piercing 4.

Dwarven Revolvers were designed with one thing in mind-power.The dwarven smiths who craft them care not for accuracy,range,or reliability-only power.

I guess thats a good taste for you for now.Tell me what you think.

By: Haldrik

Haldrik — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 03:17:00 +0000

Out of curiosity, why versus Reflex? A bullet is too fast to dodge. If anything, firearms attack Fortitude. The ability to press on *after* being hit. Ironically, targeting Fortitude would make them more balanced in a D&D game.

By: Perfidius

Perfidius — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 11:59:11 +0000

IMO the best take on firearms should be making them Encounters powers, especially if you want to grasp a swashbuckling feel over a realistic one.
In this way, you could make them a bit more powerful, as for instance:

Pistol
Dex vs Ref
1d10+Dex (lv11 2d10, lv21 3d10)
daze (save ends)

depending on the setting, you could add this encounter power to a character class, give it for free or costing a feat, as prefered.

What do you think ?

Perfidius,
Frenchman Extraordinaire

By: Canageek

Canageek — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:32:35 +0000

Actually the British military trained there soldiers to load & fire there muskets in 6 seconds, so I think load minor 2 might be a bit excessive. Certainly a heavy crossbow that had to be winched would take longer then a musket. .-= Canageek´s last blog ..Help Me Find A New Game =-.

By: alexl86

alexl86 — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:10:36 +0000

A few thoughts on this, I realize I'm a bit late.

They aren't distinct enough. As they are now, they are bows that take two actions to load, which means they're not viable in hectic encounters.

They're not by nature simple weapons. They're not really intuitive enough to be. I'd upgrade them to military, and the Blunderbuss to Superior(requiring a feat for proficiency). I'd lower their damage die by 1, but also increase their proficiency bonus by 1, and change their reload to move. That way, you can use a minor action in addition to a standard action or a move action.

Dragon pistol +3. 1d6 10/20 15gp 2lb. Firearm Load Move

Musket Rifle +3. 1d8 20/40 25gp 4lb. Firearm Load Move

Blunderbuss +2. 1d10 6/12 30gp 4lb. Firearm Load Move, High Crit.

Also think about a few feats, like a paragon tier feat to reduce the load time to a minor, or a heroic tier feat that makes pellets damage a secondary target on criticals, if they are standing directly behind the target(either a ranged basic attack or damage equal to the dexterity modifier, or something).

By: Stargazer

Stargazer — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:57:50 +0000

I like your rules very much! Great work, LordRhys.

By: LordRhys

LordRhys — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:53:59 +0000

Here's the rules I use for firearms. They are more powerful than crossbows, but are much slower (but not so slow as to be unusable). Normally they can be fired only every other round, but can be fired every round at the cost of movement and expending a feat. I was aiming for a reasonable game balance while making them attractive.

BLACKPOWDER FIREARMS

SIMPLE RANGED WEAPONS

One-handed Prof. Damage Range Price Weight Group PropertieS

Pistol +2 1d8 10/20 150 gp 3 lb. Blackpowder Load standard, puncturing

Pocket Pistol +2 1d6 6/12 100 gp 2 lb. Blackpowder Load standard, puncturing

Grenade* +2 2d6 5/10 25 gp 1 lb. Grenade

Two-handed Prof. Damage Range Price Weight Group PropertieS

Blunderbuss** +2 2d6 Close blast 3 200 gp 8 lb. Blackpowder Load standard, puncturing

MILITARY RANGED WEAPONS

One-handed Prof. Damage Range Price Weight Group PropertieS

Horse Pistol +2 1d10 10/20 200 gp 4 lb. Blackpowder Load standard, puncturing

Two-handed Prof. Damage Range Price Weight Group Properties

Musket +2 1d12 20/40 300 gp 10 lb. Blackpowder Load standard, puncturing

Other Prof. Damage Range Price Weight Group Properties

Swivel Gun*** +2 3d6 See below 600 gp 25 lb. Blackpowder Load standard, puncturing

Cannon**** +2 4d8 See below 5000 gp 600 lb. Blackpowder Load full round, puncturing

* Grenades do area damage (Burst 1). Make a ranged attack vs. reflex.

** The Blunderbuss fires a blast of pellets (small bullets).

*** The Swivel Gun can fire either a blast of pellets (small bullets) (Close blast 5), or an enormous bullet (Range 20/40). Swivel

Guns use 4 oz. of gunpowder per shot.

**** The Cannon can fire either grapeshot (a net bag filled with musket bullets) (Close blast 7), or a cannonball (Range 30/60).

Cannons use 2 lb. of gunpowder per shot.

Note: there are many Feats, Powers, and Magical Properties that are usable with crossbows that can also apply to Blackpowder

firearms (as determined on a case-by-case basis).

Puncturing: Weapons with this keyword roll versus Reflex instead of AC.

New Feat: Rapid Reload

The Rapid Reload feat reduces the load time of Blackpowder firearms by 1 step.

Ammunition

Item Price Weight

Pistol/Musket Bullets (10) 1 gp 1 lb.

Blunderbuss Pellets (10 shots) 2 gp 2 lb.

Swivel Gun Bullets/Pellets (10) 6 gp 6 lb.

Cannonball/Grapeshot (10) 60 gp 60 lb.

Gunpowder (32) (1 oz. per shot) 50 gp 2 lb.

By: Jens Alm

Jens Alm — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:53:20 +0000

I see them as a bit underpowered compared with the bows, but the bows are military weapons, so as a drop-in replacement for crossbows, they'll work great. Thanks for the comments on my own write-up (and the inspiration to do it )

Jens Alms last blog post..Black Powder Weapons in D&D 4E

By: Black Powder Weapons in D&D 4E « Polyhedral

Black Powder Weapons in D&D 4E « Polyhedral — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:10:34 +0000

[...] for black powder weapons in D&D, it seems like it’s a common addition to the core rules (Stargazer has a good take on them, as has Dicemonkey). Still, when I tried to find some good rules ahead of [...]

By: Stargazer

Stargazer — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:42:20 +0000

I don't have the D&D 4E rules with me, but when I am not mistaken, my firearms make more damage than bows and should have a similar range. As an added bonus everyone proficient with crossbows can use muskets. Making them military weapons would just reduce the number of classes that are proficient with firearms. And by the way, what would you change to make the guns better?

By: Jens Alm

Jens Alm — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:08:10 +0000

Indeed, but if I was playing a ranger, it would feel kind of foolish to use a musket instead of a bow. If it didn't matter, stats-wise, I could go for the style, but as written, they cost more, take longer to reload and have no other discernable qualities.

I understand that they are modeled on crossbows, but in 4E, from what I gather, noone uses crossbows, except for rogues, and then only because crossbows are singled out in the rogue powers.

These rules are good, I like the "2 minor to load" thing, but I don't see any player actually choosing to equip their character with these weapons, as written. In a gamist way, they probably need to be military and on even terms with the bows. I want musketeer rangers

Jens Alms last blog post..Alea Tools – A Review

By: Stargazer

Stargazer — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:36:15 +0000

Those firearms where not created to be better than a longbow or any other weapon. There are obviously still some advantages to use crossbows and longbows instead of firearms. But if you want to play a D&D game in a setting based on the renaissance era, firearms are much more fitting than longbows. It's a matter of style.

By: Jens Alm

Jens Alm — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:29:53 +0000

One thought. Why use a musket over a longbow? Jens Alms last blog post..A Variant on Minions in D&D

By: White Knights and Black Powder | A Butterfly Dreaming

White Knights and Black Powder | A Butterfly Dreaming — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:53:49 +0000

[...] about fourth-edition stats for early firearms over at Dice Monkey. (Edit: Jonathan pointed out Stargazer’s post on the topic, which I’d read but overlooked when writing this. Mea culpa.) I’ve been thinking it [...]

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[...] Stargazer’s World [...]

By: Fraser Ronald

Fraser Ronald — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 14:04:43 +0000

I like it. Very sweet and simple. Allows for the romance of the firearm while not unbalancing it. Kudos! Fraser Ronalds last blog post..A Month of Silence

By: greywulf

greywulf — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 11:33:05 +0000

Absolutely love this, and perfect for my upcoming Musketeers one-shot too

By: Questing GM

Questing GM — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 01:45:36 +0000

Load 2 minor is probably a good choice. One of my friends made them load 2 FULL ROUNDS. While probably historically accurate, it would be a real pain in combat and in game. Questing GMs last blog post..Stepping into the Obsidian Portal and Stepping Out